freeze damaged steel column repair

Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:52:20 GMT

go to see Welding Machine for freeze damaged steel column repair

This is my first post on this forum so I hope that my question is in the right section. I am not a professional welder but I do occasionally arc weld and I am capable of making some minor repairs.    I have two steel 3X3X 8Ft  columns holding up a 10ft X12FT wooden deck. Recently I noticed some damage to both columns which I suspect is from freezing. These posts have been in place since 1996 and did not originally have weep holes. As time went on they filled with water and at some point I suspect the frozen water bulged & cracked the column. Each column has one slit and three bulged sides near the damage. My plan is to temporarily support the deck with some wooden 4X4's and remove the steel columns and repair.  I plan to clean and bevel  the slits then arc weld them closed and of course drill some larger drain holes.   My question to the forum is will it be worth trying to push the bulging steel sides back in before I weld the slits?  I have a 12 ton press that I could use to squeeze the column sides. I'm not sure if this will weaken the column or cause more damage.        Thanks for your support. Attached Images
Reply:Welcome chuck95.My first thought would be to replace the 8' section of tube with new steel. I would feel better with you welding the base and top back on then welding up that damaged wall. I would look closely at where the water was getting in to the column at the top. I'd rather stop the water from getting in then deal with it once its in there. Holes get plugged by bugs dirt etc.Remember who ever is on the deck will be placing their lives in your hands based on your skill level. I know I wouldn't trust my skills at just rewelding that column. I would replace or if I rewelded it, reinforce it with heavy angle at the bottom. Its not so much that my welds wouldn't be good. I'd primarily be worried that the strength of the existing steel has been compromised and I don't know enough to be able to judge if it is materially safe.
Reply:Get new steel. Way faster to replace it than trying to weld up a rusted out tube, and it will be far better in the long run. And make sure it is 100% sealed up. No openings, no weep holes. None......
Reply:I think I would open the top, and fill them with concrete.BTW for tubes used outdoors, drainage holes have to be very large. All of nature works together, to  plug up small drain holes! Good LuckEDIT: Oops, I just read this again:  "...two steel 3X3X 8Ft columns holding up a 10ft X12FT wooden deck"Reread requires rethink!Last edited by denrep; 04-07-2008 at 01:28 PM.
Reply:Use new steel and seal it up on both ends. Stay away from the concrete as it eats steel. Keep them painted. The supports on my mom and dad's carport (3 inch pipe) are welded solid on both ends and have been in place for 35 years. It doesn't have to freeze for moisture to do serious damage to steel. It is always wet here and it seems the corrosion works even harder from inside than out.The difference between art and craft is the quality of the workmanship. I am an artist.
Reply:I would have to agree with the others about replacing instead of repair. In the long run it will cost more to try and put a band-aid on it now to only last maybe another year or two. DaveI am what I am, Deal with it!If necessity is the Mother of Invention, I must be the Father of Desperation!
Reply:Gezz, alot of very cautious conservative recommendations!If it was my deck, and the tubes were not all rusted out, I would elect to repair weld the cracks.  It really doesn't seem like any critical structural problem since the posts are mostly in compressive loading.  If there was some kind of side loading that would cause bending or twisting of the post, then I may be more cautious, but as long as the tube still has pretty good wall thickness, no big deal, weld it up.  Then drill a large drain hole, or cap the top end.  Practice some vertical up welds, then weld it in place, alot less work than taking them to the work bench.Last edited by pulser; 04-08-2008 at 02:36 PM.Reason: spelling
Reply:Chuck,I have to go with the concensus here and say that replacement of the vertical tube would be the way to go.On the other hand, if it were mine, I may go a different direction.  I'd probably pull the support out, cut off the base plate, and inspect for additional damage/rust on the inside of the tube.  Assuming that adequate good metal remains, I'd probably grind the splits in the tube, press it back together, grind the weld area, and reweld the seams.I'd then resleave the bottom 18" or so with the next size up tubing.  At a minimum, I'd use 1 1/4" x 1/4" angle to reinforce the corners (18" up).  Reweld the baseplate and top plate to insure no water gets in.  Put a good coat of zinc chromate on the whole thing and be done.I think you'll find that the damage to your tubing occured in the bottom 12-18" of the tubing.  You'll know with the base plate off.  If that's the case, you'd be throwing away about 7' of good tube.Just another way to look at the problem.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I would just fix it.  It LOOKS like its overbuilt anyhow, so weld it up, make a good drain and forget about it.  I WOULD clean it up, prime and paint so it doesn't rust from the outside in.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by pulserGezz, alot of very cautious conservative recommendations!If it was my deck, and the tubes were not all rusted out, I would elect to repair weld the cracks.  It really doesn't seem like any critical structural problem since the posts are mostly in compressive loading.  If there was some kind of side loading that would cause bending or twisting of the post, then I may be more cautious, but as long as the tube still has pretty good wall thickness, no big deal, weld it up.  Then drill a large drain hole, or cap the top end.  Practice some vertical up welds, then weld it in place, alot less work than taking them to the work bench.
Reply:Fix it and forget it..10 more years of service easy..If looks don't matter seal it up and then weld some angle around the wound..Just drill a couple of drain holes or seal it up..Your choice.....zap!Last edited by zapster; 04-08-2008 at 07:06 PM.I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:How 'bout a picture of the whole deck so we can see how it's supported ?
Reply:If the metal is still in good shape and just busted from the freezing water then i would clamp it shut and weld it.  Most of the post replacement i have dealt with were only bad on the bottom foot or two.  I wouldn't replace the entire post.  Instead cut off the damaged end, and weld in a new piece.I'm a Lover, Fighter, Wild horse Rider, and a pretty good welding man......
Reply:Is the deck 1ft off the ground or 20ft off the ground?
Reply:listen to us portable guys, we repair stuff like this all the time. Clamp it together weld it shut, prime it, shoot it with some paint and drink a beer after its done.Last edited by Ag Specialties; 04-08-2008 at 09:30 PM.
Reply:Clean the crack up with a grinder, then drill two holes, one at the top of the crack and one at the bottom of the crack to keep it from cracking any further, then try to clamp the crack closed and weld it up with some 6010 or 6011.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyIs the deck 1ft off the ground or 20ft off the ground?
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyIs the deck 1ft off the ground or 20ft off the ground?
Reply:Size for size, in the same material, a solid shape is stronger than a hollow shape.  Weight for weight, a hollow shape can be stronger than a solid shape.A concrete filled steel tube -is- stonger than the same empty steel tube.  In almost any way you care to measure or define "stronger".  Depending on the sizes involved, the real world strength difference may not be much or it could be considerable.The deck height and load and the current supports -do- make a bit of a difference as to whether the post(s) are OK, adequate, marginal, or inadequate.Before embarking on a repair effort, check the rest of the condition of the posts.  If they are mostly rust and not much steel left, then replacement is in order.  If the rust is still just heavy surface rust, remove all the rust and clean the posts and carefully squeeze the bulged parts back into shape and prep the metal and weld it all back together.  Clean, prime, and paint to slow down the rusting.
Reply:Concrete eats steel?Hmm dont think so.Moisture getting trapped between steel and concrete along with air eats steel.If concrete "ate" steel they wouldnt put rebar in it,mixer trucks wouldnt be steel,concrete buckets wouldnt be steel and the list goes on.
Reply:Originally Posted by brh1969Concrete eats steel?Hmm dont think so.Moisture getting trapped between steel and concrete along with air eats steel.If concrete "ate" steel they wouldnt put rebar in it,mixer trucks wouldnt be steel,concrete buckets wouldnt be steel and the list goes on.
Reply:As a side note column are often filled with concrete to increase fire rating.  After a building collapsed during a fire narrowly missing fire fighters the building code was changed in the area.  The columns had buckled from the heat even though the roof was still intact.
Reply:If the tubes were filling up with water so much that the water froze and burst the tube, I would say there has to be alot of rust inside those tubes.   I would replace the tubes with new steel (and cap the tops) instead of repairing them, or at least replace the bottom 2 feet, where most of the rust is likely to be.Didn't that steel bridge in Minneapolis collapse due to lack of maintenance (ie: rust) ???MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:I would weld them. Bulging could possibly be fixed by shrinking with tacks. Put tack on and then immediatly give it a whack with bfm. Can move stuff like that quite a ways. Ditto on big drain holes. If in salt water then I would try to seal it up or pour concrete.Airco 300 squarewaveMig welding center...Powcon sm300/LN 25Powcon sm200/PD lHypertherm PM 1100Miller AEAD 200LE W/LN25 FCand now another sm200 pd l combo.
Reply:You could drill holes in the tube to make sure its not rusting through.  Needs drains anyhow.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.